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Sega Genesis CIB Contents my ongoing project - please help

Jul 06 at 7:42:21 PM
billybob884 (1)

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Two more:

Ecco the Dolphin (neither had manuals, unfortunately)


World of Illusion:


I'm interested to know what the deal is on the "Value Pak" stickers; I haven't been able to find much info other than this thread from several years ago:
http://segaage.com/forum/messagev...
Besides the sticker, the two games I've come across don't seem any different from their non-stickered variants...


Edited: 07/06/2019 at 07:49 PM by billybob884

Jul 07 at 12:38:25 AM
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supergamboy (118)
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So value paks are kind of a gray area. If you look at that thread you linked to you'll see a post under my previous screen name (molotovwars) where I shared a console boxed with 1 game and a controller. My understanding is that all value Pak games were similarly packaged. So generally I don't count them as variants. Even if you buy one new the seal is different from a factory sealed game

Jul 08 at 9:31:00 PM
billybob884 (1)

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I see, yea that's a tough call. One one hand, if there are legitimately unique artwork variants only released with the value pak sticker (ala Lightening Force), then I'd argue they need to be included as part of the list; but if there are "variants" where they are identical to non-value pak releases, and the sticker isn't even on the box (i.e. on the cellophane), then I'd agree it wouldn't count...

Maybe the answer is somewhere inbetween? Like only include it if there is something unique about it (be it cart artwork or just the "Made in..." text on the box/manual), or it's verified to have the sticker on the actual box?


Anyway, another one I've found: Road Rash II has both a flip-top and slide box variant:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Road-Ras...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Road-Ras...

Jul 16 at 2:10:45 PM
retro17247 (0)

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I've been following this project for a while now as I'm trying to "super" complete my games by including all of the original inserts as well as the manuals. As I'm proceeding, I've come across two odd things that I hope someone can help me with.

1) I always remembered Super Hang On as a launch title, but the spreadsheet shows that the "Batman Returns" poster is the proper insert. Batman Returns (and most of the games shown on this poster) came out several years after the Genesis' launch.

2) The spreadsheet shows that "Trouble Shooter" by Vic Tokai includes a patents insert. If that is true, wouldn't this be the only third party game to include that particular insert?

Jul 23 at 11:20:50 PM
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supergamboy (118)
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billybob884, regarding the value pak games, what do you mean about Lightening Force? So at one pointed I owned three of four different value pak games that were all new/sealed. The sticker was always under the cellophane. But, as far as I knew then, those games were never their own release, ie if a game only had a single print run that was say "Made in Japan" then the value pak release wasn't all of a sudden on a "Made in Mexico Release." If there is a separate print run, I'll absolutely track it, but I would be tracking because of the print run not because of the value pak. I do not think any games exist where value pak has its own unique release.

I am pretty sure that most of the games used in those paks would have been something along the lines of new/old stock.

retro17247, the black box stuff can be the hardest to verify, especially those early releases. I haven't done a good enough job yet for those early releases of identifying small differences based on where each game was printed, if its labeled. I think that is a good catch for Super Hang On. I have cleared that row in the spreadsheet for now until we can get better information. I suspect that it had a later print run that did include those inserts but at the time that I tracked it, I did not track to the smallest level of where it was printed, which is important for that kind of thing.

Regarding, the patents insert, I don't think its quite accurate to say its only third party game to include the insert. Based on my spreadsheet, it came with Chuck Rock (Virgin). That one is a game that I have marked as verified sealed based on an opening by a member on these forums, Final Fight CD. I'm pretty sure I've seen it packaged with the game a couple times as well. Its possible its wrong, and its an interesting catch that its primarily with first-party games, but its something to keep an eye on.

Jul 24 at 12:06:34 AM
billybob884 (1)

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Originally posted by: supergamboy

But, as far as I knew then, those games were never their own release, ie if a game only had a single print run that was say "Made in Japan" then the value pak release wasn't all of a sudden on a "Made in Mexico Release."

In the aformentioned value pak thread, ampplays claims exactly that:
 
Originally posted by: ampplays

Yeah this list is going to be a little more difficult for those reasons. This set I saved for last as their never been much interest or discussion about them. For sure I have seen several copies of the titles I listed so I know these are all defiantly apart of this group. I have seen other titles in this this set like Sonic 2 but not enough times to solidify for me that it was originally released that way. I have a copy of Light Crusader but it is sealed, the sticker is on the cellophane but I have seen it on the box also. It's worth noting that the Lightening Force value pak has a unique cart. It's a reprint, if you take a close look at the cart you can notice differences in the grid pattern it's much bolder. The cart also has a sticker with the number code printed on it as opposed to being printed right on the cart as the original release. This is rare one to find, I have only seen it twice unlike the others which I have seen many times before.
His pictures aren't great (and it's a very old thread), so take his claim with a grain of salt, but it could be possible that some value pak games actually were unique releases aside from the sticker, and by your definition need separate tracking ("If there is a separate print run, I'll absolutely track it"). But as for tracking games that were otherwise identical to non-value pak releases, I dunno, I'm personally on the fence about it. It's not like it was a store-added sticker, it was a deliberate change by the publisher akin to a Mega Hits or Sega Classics rerelease, just without visible change to the artwork/manufacture notice...
 
Originally posted by: supergamboy

I am pretty sure that most of the games used in those paks would have been something along the lines of new/old stock.

Also, it's a bit hypocritical to disallow value pak variants if you're willing to include the physical NFR sticker variant of Sonic 1; the cart/manual/box are otherwise indistinguishable from the non-NFR variant. These were also very likely new/old stock that were part of the exact same run as their non-sticker counterparts.
 
Originally posted by: supergamboy

So at one pointed I owned three of four different value pak games that were all new/sealed. The sticker was always under the cellophane.

ampplays also claims the opposite of this:
 
Originally posted by: ampplays

Yeah this list is going to be a little more difficult for those reasons. This set I saved for last as their never been much interest or discussion about them. For sure I have seen several copies of the titles I listed so I know these are all defiantly apart of this group. I have seen other titles in this this set like Sonic 2 but not enough times to solidify for me that it was originally released that way. I have a copy of Light Crusader but it is sealed, the sticker is on the cellophane but I have seen it on the box also. It's worth noting that the Lightening Force value pak has a unique cart. It's a reprint, if you take a close look at the cart you can notice differences in the grid pattern it's much bolder. The cart also has a sticker with the number code printed on it as opposed to being printed right on the cart as the original release. This is rare one to find, I have only seen it twice unlike the others which I have seen many times before.

Again, it's an old thread with poor photo quality (as the internet likes to say, pics or it didn't happen), so it needs more research to confirm these actually existed, but at least one person claims they did. But for argument's sake, if you were to accept my premise about value pak releases being "legitimate" variants, this would muddy the waters even further, since an opened value pak release would be indistinguishable from a regular release.
 


Edited: 07/24/2019 at 12:15 AM by billybob884

Jul 24 at 8:27:43 AM
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supergamboy (118)
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I should still have ampplays' phone number and I can send him a message. For Lightening Force, I suspect that the game itself has at least two print runs and perhaps that the value pak sticker was only applied to that particular release.

At one point, I collected only sealed value pak games (with the sticker under the seal), in part because of the issue you've pointed out above and certainly with any clamshell game, the art insert could just be swapped making it hard to know if that game actually was value pak. Cardboard titles didn't have quite the same problem, but they were still a pretty big gray area for me.

In my spreadsheet, if you look to the bottom I've added a 3rd sheet called "Value Pak" - I'd be glad to add some information there to track these games without muddying up the overall spreadsheet. As someone interested in value pak, what information would you want to see tracked?

All I can think of would be: 1) Game Name 2) Sticker over/under seal (if known) 3) Box, cart, manual origin (if able to track - though only box possible if sealed)

Jul 25 at 3:48:16 AM
Gunstar (3)

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Originally posted by: retro17247

I've been following this project for a while now as I'm trying to "super" complete my games by including all of the original inserts as well as the manuals. As I'm proceeding, I've come across two odd things that I hope someone can help me with.

1) I always remembered Super Hang On as a launch title, but the spreadsheet shows that the "Batman Returns" poster is the proper insert. Batman Returns (and most of the games shown on this poster) came out several years after the Genesis' launch.

2) The spreadsheet shows that "Trouble Shooter" by Vic Tokai includes a patents insert. If that is true, wouldn't this be the only third party game to include that particular insert?

I just wanted to back up that my copy of Trouble Shooter i bought a few years back does have that Patents slip in it as well. Its not 100% proof, but i can say my copy has it.
 

Jul 27 at 12:38:06 AM
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supergamboy (118)
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Thanks for the input, and yes, I am confident about Trouble Shooter too as I have it marked as "verified from sealed" as a member here opened a copy

Jul 28 at 10:02:04 PM
retro17247 (0)

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Thanks for the info. 


Edited: 07/31/2019 at 11:49 PM by retro17247

Jul 30 at 11:14:28 PM
billybob884 (1)

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Originally posted by: supergamboy

In my spreadsheet, if you look to the bottom I've added a 3rd sheet called "Value Pak" - I'd be glad to add some information there to track these games without muddying up the overall spreadsheet. As someone interested in value pak, what information would you want to see tracked?

All I can think of would be: 1) Game Name 2) Sticker over/under seal (if known) 3) Box, cart, manual origin (if able to track - though only box possible if sealed)

To be honest, and I'll probably sound like an ass for saying this now after all the back and forth (which was just in the good spirit of debate!), but personally...I'm not super interested in Value Pak releases in and of themselves -- I was mostly interested in your opinion on why or why not they would qualify as "legitimate" variants (as well as trying to decide whether to include them as part of my own personal tracking log -- largely based on your work, thank you very much). I enjoy this sort of meticulous detail-picking.

If they are to be tracked, there's really nothing I can think of that would be different about value pak variants than any other: variations in art, different production locations, inserts/reg.cards, pretty much all the details already tracked on your sheet.

Jul 31 at 10:34:59 PM
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supergamboy (118)
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Aug 10 at 12:25:47 AM
billybob884 (1)

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Found a copy of NCAA Football with an upsidedown cartridge label:

I dont actually own a regular copy of it to compare and see if there are other differences, soifanyone else sees anything, let me know.

Aug 10 at 8:51:05 AM
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supergamboy (118)
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Cool, but probably just a factory error on that one but there is a guy there that tracks those (username hybrid).

I used to own a Sonic 2 and a Sonic 3 upside down cart.

For Michael Jackson's Moonwalker there is a full release in which all carts are upside down, manual is b/w, and the clamshell style is different, but that's kind of an exception.

Did you buy this NCAA?

Aug 11 at 12:18:50 AM
billybob884 (1)

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If you mean am I the original owner, then no, it came as part of a lot of games I bought a little while ago.

Aug 11 at 5:00:16 PM

Aug 17 at 3:59:10 PM
retro17247 (0)

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I'm trying to find the correct inserts for the retail version of Sonic the Hedgehog 2. According to the spreadsheet, there are 2 posters included. One is listed as "Get a Grip" and the other is "Batman Returns". However, the "Get a Grip" poster has Batman Returns on the rear side. Is there a different poster of just Batman Returns?

Aug 18 at 5:37:43 AM
IchbinIan (1)

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Originally posted by: retro17247

I'm trying to find the correct inserts for the retail version of Sonic the Hedgehog 2. According to the spreadsheet, there are 2 posters included. One is listed as "Get a Grip" and the other is "Batman Returns". However, the "Get a Grip" poster has Batman Returns on the rear side. Is there a different poster of just Batman Returns?
The names the spreadsheet uses for these posters refers to what's shown when the poster is folded up.  You are correct; the "Get a Grip" poster, when unfolded, is a Batman Returns poster on one side.  There is a different poster that says "Batman Returns" when folded.  When this poster is unfolded, it is a Sonic 2 poster on one side and a promo that lists games and screenshots on the other side. 

It is confusing now that I'm trying to explain it lol.  It'd be easier to show in photos.  I can't provide any right now though.  

 

Aug 18 at 7:41:48 PM
retro17247 (0)

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Thanks for the info - it made sense.

Aug 18 at 10:35:44 PM
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At some point I've got a rename format idea. I've done it for some where I write POSTER: side 1 / side 2

But it's hard to get it all consistent for all ~1000 rows. Always a slow WIP

Aug 25 at 10:42:51 PM
retro17247 (0)

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This may be a little off topic, but how much information is out there regarding the several different types of red trays for cardboard releases. I know of the vertical, horizontal with "Genesis" printed on front and horizontal with "Genesis" printed on the rear (this one also has a 2" X 3/4" cutout along the top center of the rear, almost like the hangtabs on the old NES black boxes). I'm curious to know which games came with which types of trays. I've mixed and matched trays over the years to get the best condition ones so I can't really be certain if any of mine are original.

Also - does anyone know anything about this poster?  Every "Get a Grip" poster I've ever seen has a full page Batman Returns printed on the other side.  This one has "Welcome to the Next Level".  I've searched the CIB contents spreadsheet and I can't find this one listed.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sega-Genesis-Catalog-Poster-Gear-16...

One more - I have a poster which has "Sega Does it All" one one side when folded (with pics of Joe Montana, ROS, Spiderman, MJ, Sonic & Strider), Game Gear "Available Now" on the other side when folded, "We Bring the Arcade Experience Home" on one side when unfolded & "Sonic the Hedgehog 1 (full page) on the other unfolded side.  Again, I can't find a game listed for this poster.


Edited: 08/26/2019 at 12:04 AM by retro17247

Aug 26 at 1:47:39 AM
IchbinIan (1)

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Originally posted by: retro17247

This may be a little off topic, but how much information is out there regarding the several different types of red trays for cardboard releases. I know of the vertical, horizontal with "Genesis" printed on front and horizontal with "Genesis" printed on the rear (this one also has a 2" X 3/4" cutout along the top center of the rear, almost like the hangtabs on the old NES black boxes). I'm curious to know which games came with which types of trays. I've mixed and matched trays over the years to get the best condition ones so I can't really be certain if any of mine are original.

Also - does anyone know anything about this poster?  Every "Get a Grip" poster I've ever seen has a full page Batman Returns printed on the other side.  This one has "Welcome to the Next Level".  I've searched the CIB contents spreadsheet and I can't find this one listed.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sega-Genesis-Catalog-Poster-Gear-16...

One more - I have a poster which has "Sega Does it All" one one side when folded (with pics of Joe Montana, ROS, Spiderman, MJ, Sonic & Strider), Game Gear "Available Now" on the other side when folded, "We Bring the Arcade Experience Home" on one side when unfolded & "Sonic the Hedgehog 1 (full page) on the other unfolded side.  Again, I can't find a game listed for this poster.

I'm not aware of a place that has every cardboard release listed with it's appropriate tray but here's a post from SA from 2010 that talks about this subject:

http://segaage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=42&thread...

And here's a article from another website:

http://gameover-johnny.blogspot.com/2012/04/sega-genesis-car...

Also, Supergamboy's Sega Club Collecting guide shows a couple games that came with the horizontal tray style:

http://segaage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=42&thread...

As far as the "Get a Grip" posters; every one I have seen that has the full batman poster on the one side usually says "PRINTED IN JAPAN" beneath the Game Gear logo on the front side (when folded).  The other version you're referring to that says "Welcome to the Next Level" does not.  I'm not 100% on why this is.  Maybe these posters weren't actually included with games?  Maybe they were included with consoles?  My reason for thinking this is that there are different variations of the "Best for Less" insert as well.  Some say "PRINTED IN JAPAN" and others say 'PRINTED IN TAIWAN".  I'm pretty sure the ones printed in Taiwan were included with the consoles (Sega's consoles were built in Taiwan at this time).  It could also be that these are just a variation insert that was included with games at a different time.  Like I said; I don't know for sure.  Another user might have more insight.
 

Aug 27 at 11:15:32 PM
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supergamboy (118)
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Tray styles is something I would like to track in my spreadsheet, especially for higher end games. I've seen plenty of people buy a game like Crusader of Centy or Shining Force II and pay a lot of money because its in nice condition (such as tray condition), only for that tray to be a swap.

Sep 07 at 6:51:49 PM
billybob884 (1)

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On somewhat of a side note, do you know of any sort of equivalent list for hardware (consoles, controllers, accessories, etc)?

Sep 07 at 8:13:06 PM
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supergamboy (118)
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Nope! Not something I've tracked. There might be an old thread here tracking console boxes. But Europe got all the best ones


Edited: 09/07/2019 at 08:13 PM by supergamboy